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Thread: NAVY vs K- State at half time

  1. #101

    Default Re: NAVY vs K- State at half time

    Quote Originally Posted by half-n-half View Post
    But that was LITERALLY MY QUESTION. I seriously don’t know how much clearer I could be in this. LITERALLY EXACTLY AS THE PLAY IS DRAWN UP IN THE 1985 PLAYBOOK. And I keep getting “you can run every bit of it...as long as you change it. THEN ITS NOT THE SAME.
    Literally.... for a drawn up play, when a wr is supposed to block a cornerback lined up over him, you draw a line segment extending from the wr to the cornerback and put a small perpendicular line segment on the end of it. It will look like a capital ‘T’. That means the wr blocks the corner. There is not a special ‘cut block line’ or a special ‘stalk block line’. Literally.

    If you buy a wing t playbook there is not a special line drawn for ‘chicken wing - shoulder blocks’ or a special line drawn for ‘hand blocking’. The play is drawn up using the afore mentioned lines that look like a ‘T’.... it’s up to the coach to determine the blocking technique to be used. Literally.

    When Tracy ham connected with Johnson on ‘the catch’, he dropped back facing the left then flips around to face the right before throwing to the slot. When jaybo Shaw ran the same play (flex with four verts) it looks exactly the same in the playbook. However, he used the drop back technique that is more commonly taught and seen today. Literally.

    The 85 slots were facing forward with their inside foot back. The 2019 navy slot backs faced forward with their feet even. If you looked at inside veer for each team on a play sheet they are exactly the same even though the slots are taught a different technique for their stances. Literally.

    Plays are the same - techniques vary.

    Hail southern

    Every play in the 85 playbook could be run in today’s game.
    A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.
    Proverbs 29:11

  2. #102

    Default Re: NAVY vs K- State at half time

    Quote Originally Posted by southgeorgia View Post
    Every play in the 85 playbook could be run in today’s game.
    But would you want to? What happened to the Civil War generals who followed Napoleonic-era tactics to the letter?
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  3. #103

    Default Re: NAVY vs K- State at half time

    Quote Originally Posted by southgeorgia View Post
    Literally.... for a drawn up play, when a wr is supposed to block a cornerback lined up over him, you draw a line segment extending from the wr to the cornerback and put a small perpendicular line segment on the end of it. It will look like a capital ‘T’. That means the wr blocks the corner. There is not a special ‘cut block line’ or a special ‘stalk block line’. Literally.
    That appears to be the case.
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  4. #104
    Join Date
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    Location
    JDC325's Head
    Posts
    29,625

    Default Re: NAVY vs K- State at half time

    Quote Originally Posted by southgeorgia View Post
    Literally.... for a drawn up play, when a wr is supposed to block a cornerback lined up over him, you draw a line segment extending from the wr to the cornerback and put a small perpendicular line segment on the end of it. It will look like a capital ‘T’. That means the wr blocks the corner. There is not a special ‘cut block line’ or a special ‘stalk block line’. Literally.

    If you buy a wing t playbook there is not a special line drawn for ‘chicken wing - shoulder blocks’ or a special line drawn for ‘hand blocking’. The play is drawn up using the afore mentioned lines that look like a ‘T’.... it’s up to the coach to determine the blocking technique to be used. Literally.

    When Tracy ham connected with Johnson on ‘the catch’, he dropped back facing the left then flips around to face the right before throwing to the slot. When jaybo Shaw ran the same play (flex with four verts) it looks exactly the same in the playbook. However, he used the drop back technique that is more commonly taught and seen today. Literally.

    The 85 slots were facing forward with their inside foot back. The 2019 navy slot backs faced forward with their feet even. If you looked at inside veer for each team on a play sheet they are exactly the same even though the slots are taught a different technique for their stances. Literally.

    Plays are the same - techniques vary.

    Hail southern

    Every play in the 85 playbook could be run in today’s game.


    That's all great. But you could have saved a lot of time and just read where I already said earlier that I haven't seen the playbook and I don't know what the blocking techniques look like.

    I don't think you guys can comprehend that I was asking a simple question not looking for an argument or trying to prove a point about anything. But the reality is unless you have seen the 1985 playbook you can't answer my question either. I don't get why so many people that haven't seen the playbook are hell bent on giving an answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by NO_QUARTER View Post
    I actually considered getting into a debate with Half one time (on something unimportant). But then chickened out because I knew my a$$ was about to get handed to me.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    JDC325's Head
    Posts
    29,625

    Default Re: NAVY vs K- State at half time

    Quote Originally Posted by pete4256 View Post
    That appears to be the case.

    So part 2 then becomes could you run those plays as effectively after changing the blocking scheme? For instance even if there is a T on the blocking scheme but it was taught as a cut block that is now illegal could you run that play as effective? I'm not nearly smart enough to know the answer to that.

    And I will go ahead and try and make this as clear as possible (for others not you Pete) I AM ASKING A QUESTION. I AM NOT STATING THAT YOU CAN'T RUN THE PLAYS AS EFFECTIVELY.
    Quote Originally Posted by NO_QUARTER View Post
    I actually considered getting into a debate with Half one time (on something unimportant). But then chickened out because I knew my a$$ was about to get handed to me.

  6. #106

    Default Re: NAVY vs K- State at half time

    Quote Originally Posted by southgeorgia View Post
    Literally.... for a drawn up play, when a wr is supposed to block a cornerback lined up over him, you draw a line segment extending from the wr to the cornerback and put a small perpendicular line segment on the end of it. It will look like a capital ‘T’. That means the wr blocks the corner. There is not a special ‘cut block line’ or a special ‘stalk block line’. Literally.

    If you buy a wing t playbook there is not a special line drawn for ‘chicken wing - shoulder blocks’ or a special line drawn for ‘hand blocking’. The play is drawn up using the afore mentioned lines that look like a ‘T’.... it’s up to the coach to determine the blocking technique to be used. Literally.

    When Tracy ham connected with Johnson on ‘the catch’, he dropped back facing the left then flips around to face the right before throwing to the slot. When jaybo Shaw ran the same play (flex with four verts) it looks exactly the same in the playbook. However, he used the drop back technique that is more commonly taught and seen today. Literally.

    The 85 slots were facing forward with their inside foot back. The 2019 navy slot backs faced forward with their feet even. If you looked at inside veer for each team on a play sheet they are exactly the same even though the slots are taught a different technique for their stances. Literally.

    Plays are the same - techniques vary.

    Hail southern

    Every play in the 85 playbook could be run in today’s game.
    Thank you for your insight, southgeorgia.

  7. #107

    Default Re: NAVY vs K- State at half time

    Quote Originally Posted by pete4256 View Post
    That appears to be the case.
    And thank you for your efforts also, pete4256.

  8. #108

    Default Re: NAVY vs K- State at half time

    Quote Originally Posted by half-n-half View Post
    So part 2 then becomes could you run those plays as effectively after changing the blocking scheme? For instance even if there is a T on the blocking scheme but it was taught as a cut block that is now illegal could you run that play as effective? I'm not nearly smart enough to know the answer to that.

    And I will go ahead and try and make this as clear as possible (for others not you Pete) I AM ASKING A QUESTION. I AM NOT STATING THAT YOU CAN'T RUN THE PLAYS AS EFFECTIVELY.
    And that’s an entirely different, MUCH more complicated question (I’m agreeing with you, not arguing with you).

    But again, unless teams are running ‘80s and ‘90s defenses, why should we use an old playbook?

    From what I remember, the original question about using the 1985 playbook had to do with the passing game. IMO, that playbook itself (even with the RNS-lite option routes) didn’t have nearly as much to do with our ability to throw effectively from 1984-86 and in 1990 as our personnel did.

    Personally, I don’t care whether we improve our passing or not if we can get back to being an elite running team. We can’t pass like we have in 2017-19 and be a good offense unless we run for 350+ ypg and average 5.5 yards per rush. If we do that and throw efficiently like we did in 2014 and 2018, we’ll score 35+ ppg.

    Passing by itself becomes MUCH more important if we can’t be an elite running team.

    Either improve passing OR develop an elite running team. 2019 results aren’t good enough.
    Last edited by pete4256; 4th January 2020 at 09:54 PM.
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  9. #109

    Default Re: NAVY vs K- State at half time

    Quote Originally Posted by half-n-half View Post
    So part 2 then becomes could you run those plays as effectively after changing the blocking scheme? For instance even if there is a T on the blocking scheme but it was taught as a cut block that is now illegal could you run that play as effective? I'm not nearly smart enough to know the answer to that.

    And I will go ahead and try and make this as clear as possible (for others not you Pete) I AM ASKING A QUESTION. I AM NOT STATING THAT YOU CAN'T RUN THE PLAYS AS EFFECTIVELY.
    Literally.....I do not believe you can.....and I have seen the playbook but it has been decades ago......
    Poster formerly known as gudp1

  10. #110

    Default Re: NAVY vs K- State at half time

    Quote Originally Posted by southgeorgia View Post
    All of the playbook could be used.

    Hail southern
    I literally answered the question here.

    Quote Originally Posted by half-n-half View Post
    But that was LITERALLY MY QUESTION. I seriously don’t know how much clearer I could be in this. LITERALLY EXACTLY AS THE PLAY IS DRAWN UP IN THE 1985 PLAYBOOK. And I keep getting “you can run every bit of it...as long as you change it. THEN ITS NOT THE SAME.
    PJ’s play diagram of midline option against a four front with a shade and a 3 technique looks just like the way Brent Davis drew it up for army in 2018. Blocking techniques aren’t reflected on play diagrams.

    Quote Originally Posted by pete4256 View Post

    Since half is being literal, yes, you could run everything I’ve seen so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by half-n-half View Post
    That's all great. But you could have saved a lot of time and just read where I already said earlier that I haven't seen the playbook and I don't know what the blocking techniques look like.

    I don't think you guys can comprehend that I was asking a simple question not looking for an argument or trying to prove a point about anything. But the reality is unless you have seen the 1985 playbook you can't answer my question either. I don't get why so many people that haven't seen the playbook are hell bent on giving an answer.
    I understood how literal you were being. As you’ve acknowledged, you didn’t know that blocking techniques aren’t reflected on play diagrams. I’m not looking for an argument either and I appreciate the discussion. Pete looked and verified my original answer. I’ve seen enough playbooks, including ones from GS flex days, to know that diagrams don’t reflect blocking technique so I thought I’d help get the question answered. I’m not sure that you appreciated how simple and literal my answer was to your question.

    Hail southern
    A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.
    Proverbs 29:11

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