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Thread: Why We've Struggled

  1. #1

    Default Why We've Struggled

    From our 2016 recruiting class 12 non-juco players are not on the roster. From our 2017 recruiting class, 7 non-juco players are not on the roster. Almost 20 of what should be upperclassmen are not there. Some of you are going to say that's not a big deal, but that is a lot of scholarship players to have to replace (Shaq Griffin is still officially on the roster but I counted him as not being since he is not with the team.). In 2016 and 2017 combined we signed only 6 offensive lineman officially. Brian Miller was listed as a defensive lineman. Several of those did not have any other offers from other schools. The Fritz years weren't very good for retention either. When you have had this many people leave the program or not even make it to campus in that short of time and then you have a year full of injuries, you're going to struggle at times.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Why We've Struggled

    That's comes with coaching territory changes. Sounds like a lot but what are the numbers for the Sun Belt? You also need to factor in some of those guys were busts, some were injured, others couldn't handle college.
    No longer eating crow for saying "The TO is gone get over it!!"

  3. Default Re: Why We've Struggled

    Transfers will have to play into our success. Would have been great to have a couple game ready JUCO linemen either side of the ball.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Why We've Struggled

    We haven't had 2 full years of consistent recruiting, especially on offense, since Monken's last class in 2013. This Dec/Feb will be the first time since that class.

    We likely would have been ok with Fritz leaving in 2 years cause it would have been more of a blip in recruiting, however Summers was a mess each year, so that amounted to an entire recruiting cycle (4 years) basically wasted with no continuity/development.

    We are ultimately currently a product of what happened in that time. The staff we have now has done a great job to get us to where we're at now, and the players themselves are putting in great effort.

    However we have deficiencies that we can't just miracle away. It takes time. I do wish we could scheme around these deficiencies a bit more, but I'm also not privy to everything either.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Why We've Struggled

    Quote Originally Posted by Richrappa View Post
    Transfers will have to play into our success. Would have been great to have a couple game ready JUCO linemen either side of the ball.
    JUCO DL yes. Not that bad to pick up the scheme we're running.

    JUCO OL no.

    OL problems aren't fixed that easy. JD King came into our system as a running back and has struggled with elements he is tasked with doing in this offense vs the one he came from at Okie State.

    Blocking schemes are complicated in an option offense. It takes time to learn the assignments. I have yet to see a JUCO OL come in and succeed at a high level right away in this type of offense. I'm more interested in getting another solid class this year on Signing Day, and checking out the guys signed this past year as they get worked in next year.

    If we ran something a bit more conventional then I'd agree with you. But we don't. We run similar concepts but the way our OL works is unique enough to not just plug and play.


  6. #6

    Default Re: Why We've Struggled

    Quote Originally Posted by 1peatfor7 View Post
    That's comes with coaching territory changes. Sounds like a lot but what are the numbers for the Sun Belt? You also need to factor in some of those guys were busts, some were injured, others couldn't handle college.
    Arkansas State had a ton of jucos in 2016, but they had only had three freshman that aren’t still on the team. After that I decided I better not go down the rabbit hole of checking for every team. While all you’re saying is true, that’s also going to be true, even the difference in 2016 and 2017 for us shows that the class that is our current seniors and redshirt juniors was decimated.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Why We've Struggled

    Quote Originally Posted by Richrappa View Post
    Transfers will have to play into our success. Would have been great to have a couple game ready JUCO linemen either side of the ball.
    No.

    IMO it's fine to sign 1 or 2 jucos if you need another mature player out there, but it's a duct-tape, short-term solution that's not a recipe to building the caliber of OL we want to have.
    "Follow the trendlines, not the headlines." -Steven Pinker (?)

    Regarding football Scheduling.

  8. Default Re: Why We've Struggled

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglewraith View Post
    JUCO DL yes. Not that bad to pick up the scheme we're running.

    JUCO OL no.

    OL problems aren't fixed that easy. JD King came into our system as a running back and has struggled with elements he is tasked with doing in this offense vs the one he came from at Okie State.

    Blocking schemes are complicated in an option offense. It takes time to learn the assignments. I have yet to see a JUCO OL come in and succeed at a high level right away in this type of offense. I'm more interested in getting another solid class this year on Signing Day, and checking out the guys signed this past year as they get worked in next year.

    If we ran something a bit more conventional then I'd agree with you. But we don't. We run similar concepts but the way our OL works is unique enough to not just plug and play.
    Fritz fixes it w JUCO. When I spoke with him that was his concern and they went and it was fixed. So maybe your right only can deal with my experience

  9. #9

    Default Re: Why We've Struggled

    Quote Originally Posted by Richrappa View Post
    Transfers will have to play into our success. Would have been great to have a couple game ready JUCO linemen either side of the ball.
    Transfers? JUCOs?

    You mean like Aaron Dowdell, Jake Edwards, and Jawaski Webb?

    Or Justin Ellis and Dillon Springer?
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  10. #10

    Default Re: Why We've Struggled

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglewraith View Post
    We haven't had 2 full years of consistent recruiting, especially on offense, since Monken's last class in 2013. This Dec/Feb will be the first time since that class.

    We likely would have been ok with Fritz leaving in 2 years cause it would have been more of a blip in recruiting, however Summers was a mess each year, so that amounted to an entire recruiting cycle (4 years) basically wasted with no continuity/development.

    We are ultimately currently a product of what happened in that time. The staff we have now has done a great job to get us to where we're at now, and the players themselves are putting in great effort.

    However we have deficiencies that we can't just miracle away. It takes time. I do wish we could scheme around these deficiencies a bit more, but I'm also not privy to everything either.
    The biggest issues personnel-wise have been tied to what’s happened once we got guys on campus.

    On offense, WR transfers and OL injuries are the story of 2017-19.

    Maybe the former is due to recruiting the wrong guys, but most of the latter has just been terrible luck. It is true we needed more OL numbers during the Summers years. That’s the only way to prepare for terrible luck. We really need to sign another five OL this year. I’m not optimistic, though.
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

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