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Thread: Rules question

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Rules question

    Quote Originally Posted by GSUAlumniEagle View Post
    Of course if a backwards pass is a pass it's a loose ball. We've all seen that.

    I'm just saying in this one specific situation, when a team is trying to spike the ball to stop the clock, the officiating crew is not going to split hairs trying to determine whether the QB spiked the ball backwards by approximately half an inch.
    THANKS!

    TALON
    GSU Spread Option FOOTBALL - out weighed, but never outplayed
    The T-Option is the powerful ground game ever devised & the FLEX is the best way to run it.
    If I want your opinion & don't like it I'll tell you what it should be.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Rules question

    Quote Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
    Perhaps y’all are just more comfortable with being imprecise.

    But any margin is significant.

    That’s exactly where the distinction between ‘forward’ and ‘backward’ lives.

    I’m not sure how we are agreeing that “yes” it is a backwards pass, but “no” that doesn’t matter-because reasons.

    (What Minn did was a stupid stunt. One day they will come across a team which will catch this and an officiating crew who will split a couple of hairs.)
    I'd love for you to come out one day and officiate. You'd be great at it.

    Sure, every play would have a flag and the game would take approximately 19 hours. But you'd be terrific.
    "Officially" designated as the wannabe GSUFans Vigilante Moderator.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Rules question

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfart View Post
    When the QB is trying to save time on the clock, he spikes the ball to save the clock. I get that. The question I have is if the quarterback accepts the ball, turns and faces backwards while spiking the ball backwards, wouldn’t this be considered a fumble since the ball travels backwards?
    I was rewatching the end of this year’s GA Southern/ Minnesota game, and 2 plays(4th quarter @20-25 sec left) before Minnesota scored the winning TD, the Minnesota QB did just what I described. What is the rule on that?
    IMO, Your description of that play is wrong. The ball travels straight down when he throws it at the ground, it doesn’t travel backwards. The only thing that matters here is the direction of the ball when it leaves the qb’s hand; if it travels anything other than backwards from the plane that it is thrown from that runs parallel to the LOS, then it’s an incomplete pass.

    Hail southern
    A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.
    Proverbs 29:11

  4. #34

    Default Re: Rules question

    Quote Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
    (What Minn did was a stupid stunt. One day they will come across a team which will catch this and an officiating crew who will split a couple of hairs.)
    1) what makes this stupid stunt that Minn pulled any different than when any other team spikes the ball?

    B) when said team catches the gophers pulling the stupid stunt again..... how exactly are they gonna react? Describe this scene, because I can’t possibly imagine what they’d do because these are immediately whistled dead.

    Also worth noting here.... again.... the ball in video isn’t thrown backwards. A hypothetical situation where the ball is thrown backwards has been discussed.

    Hail southern
    A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.
    Proverbs 29:11

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Rules question

    Quote Originally Posted by southgeorgia View Post
    1) what makes this stupid stunt that Minn pulled any different than when any other team spikes the ball?

    B) when said team catches the gophers pulling the stupid stunt again..... how exactly are they gonna react? Describe this scene, because I can’t possibly imagine what they’d do because these are immediately whistled dead.

    Also worth noting here.... again.... the ball in video isn’t thrown backwards. A hypothetical situation where the ball is thrown backwards has been discussed.

    Hail southern
    Not meaning to get anyone upset, but if the QB turns around and you have a back behind you IMO the ball is in play whether he throws it down or not.

    This doesn't mean I'm right, its just an opinion.
    GSU Spread Option FOOTBALL - out weighed, but never outplayed
    The T-Option is the powerful ground game ever devised & the FLEX is the best way to run it.
    If I want your opinion & don't like it I'll tell you what it should be.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Rules question

    Don’t ask the question if you don’t want to accept the answer.

  7. #37

    Default Re: Rules question

    Quote Originally Posted by southgeorgia View Post
    IMO, Your description of that play is wrong. The ball travels straight down when he throws it at the ground, it doesn’t travel backwards. The only thing that matters here is the direction of the ball when it leaves the qb’s hand; if it travels anything other than backwards from the plane that it is thrown from that runs parallel to the LOS, then it’s an incomplete pass.

    Hail southern
    It appears to go slightly backwards from where it was released, at least to me it does, and that should be a fumble. That's open to interpretation, I get it, but in the event one of our players had jumped on it, and replay showed it to be ever so slightly traveling backwards, it would be our ball, right? The ref blew the whistle, so the play was dead and over anyway, I get all that, but should the ref have blown the whistle there? Should our guys have been alert to it and tried to jump on it? Were we hosed by an inadvertent whistle?

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Rules question

    Quote Originally Posted by TALON View Post
    Not meaning to get anyone upset, but if the QB turns around and you have a back behind you IMO the ball is in play whether he throws it down or not.

    This doesn't mean I'm right, its just an opinion.
    And your opinion is wrong and you've been shown the rule book as fact you are wrong.
    No longer eating crow for saying "The TO is gone get over it!!"

  9. #39

    Default Re: Rules question

    Quote Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
    Perhaps y’all are just more comfortable with being imprecise.

    But any margin is significant.

    That’s exactly where the distinction between ‘forward’ and ‘backward’ lives.

    I’m not sure how we are agreeing that “yes” it is a backwards pass, but “no” that doesn’t matter-because reasons.

    (What Minn did was a stupid stunt. One day they will come across a team which will catch this and an officiating crew who will split a couple of hairs.)
    Should you flag a QB for intentional grounding for a forward spike? You might as well be arguing that.

    I would think as long as the QB takes the snap and immediately spikes it there should be no problem. The QB needs to leave no room for doubt what his intentions are and there shouldn't be any controversy or ambiguity.
    "Follow the trendlines, not the headlines." -Steven Pinker (?)

    Regarding football Scheduling.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Rules question

    I think that there is some merit to the question here. I don't think we got hosed, well except for the crazy penalty on the bench due to a very slight incidental contact on the field goal block return. I think most officiating crews wouldn't have given us 15 yards there but a warning, in which case we could have been looking at 35/35 tie at the end of regulation. But back to the point.

    First, we didn't attempt to recover it. So by rule, it's dead.
    Yes there was a whistle, however .. As we witnessed at GT when they immediately blew the whistle after that FORWARD pitch... The defense made an "immediate recovery". This gave a reason to review the play and potentially change the outcome even though the officials had went ahead and defaulted to the incomplete call via the immediate whistle.
    (They still haven't explained in that one though how they ultimately ruled a forward pitch a backwards pitch... MAJOR home cooking!)


    Ok now back to Minnesota.
    Officials in that case ARE going to default to the immediate whistle. But had we made an immediate recovery, it may have warranted a closer look. When you dive into that replay, it isn't so clear cut.

    It really doesn't matter what the intentions of the QB were or what Minnesota was giving up to achieve something (in this case to stop the clock).
    Officials aren't there to help either team achieve their goals.
    It really only SHOULD matter what the team/QB actually executed. So what did he actually do?

    Well, he didn't Spike the ball in the traditional manner. He did turn around from under center.
    And no, it doesn't matter which way he is facing but that Spike went from his hand and landed further from the line of scrimmage than when he released it.

    I think that we would have had no argument simply because we didn't recover or even attempt to immediately recover it.

    So in the future, we should ignore the whistle and go ahead and immediately attempt and then recover the ball. THEN, see if we can get a replay to examine the actual execution of the play to determine if the technicality of what actually happened would give us possession of the football.

    I don't think that it's as clear cut as some have suggested nor do I see anything in the rule that allows the QB to stand up, turn around and Spike the ball backwards and it not fall under the guidelines of what is or is not a backwards pass. What he was trying to do and what he actually did in this case, I believe, were technically two different things.

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