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Thread: Bob DeBesse opens up on ‘disjointed’ Georgia Southern offense

  1. #121

    Default Re: Bob DeBesse opens up on ‘disjointed’ Georgia Southern offense

    Quote Originally Posted by half-n-half View Post
    Honestly this is getting way too in depth. If we are scoring points and the process looks sustainable then I’m going to be happy with the OC. If we aren’t then I’m not.
    yep, +1.

  2. #122
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    Default Re: Bob DeBesse opens up on ‘disjointed’ Georgia Southern offense

    Quote Originally Posted by GATAlac El Dorado View Post
    So, you’d endorse/approve Gillespie for ‘07, but not ‘08-‘09? Davis for ‘11 but not ‘10 or ‘12-‘13?

    To speak specifically to these questions:

    Hatcher was the man behind the offense so Gillespie is irrelevant. And even though the staff was the same the offense changed from ‘07-‘08/‘09. So yeah I liked what Hatcher did in ‘07 but not after that.

    Davis didn’t start calling plays until the App St game of 2010. He’s a good OC but that doesn’t mean he didn’t get ultra conservative (maybe at Monken’s demand?) in 2012 and was running a completely different offense for the most of 2013 that had us looking like a lost jumbled mess way too much.

    So yes it fluctuates as things change even within continuous staffs.
    Quote Originally Posted by NO_QUARTER View Post
    I actually considered getting into a debate with Half one time (on something unimportant). But then chickened out because I knew my a$$ was about to get handed to me.

  3. #123

    Default Re: Bob DeBesse opens up on ‘disjointed’ Georgia Southern offense

    Quote Originally Posted by half-n-half View Post
    To speak specifically to these questions:

    Hatcher was the man behind the offense so Gillespie is irrelevant. And even though the staff was the same the offense changed from ‘07-‘08/‘09. So yeah I liked what Hatcher did in ‘07 but not after that.

    Davis didn’t start calling plays until the App St game of 2010. He’s a good OC but that doesn’t mean he didn’t get ultra conservative (maybe at Monken’s demand?) in 2012 and was running a completely different offense for the most of 2013 that had us looking like a lost jumbled mess way too much.

    So yes it fluctuates as things change even within continuous staffs.
    I forgot about that. Other than the Florida game that was a really forgettable season. I remember him trying to use the gun a few times and it looked awful, which caused people to freak out once we hired Fritz, as they pointed to Davis' 2013 offense as proof that we would struggle under Fritz.

  4. #124

    Default Re: Bob DeBesse opens up on ‘disjointed’ Georgia Southern offense

    Quote Originally Posted by half-n-half View Post
    Honestly this is getting way too in depth. If we are scoring points and the process looks sustainable then I’m going to be happy with the OC. If we aren’t then I’m not.
    I agree, with the reservation that I’m an amateur and therefore don’t always know enough to judge whether “the process looks sustainable.”
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  5. #125

    Default Re: Bob DeBesse opens up on ‘disjointed’ Georgia Southern offense

    Quote Originally Posted by half-n-half View Post
    To speak specifically to these questions:

    Hatcher was the man behind the offense so Gillespie is irrelevant. And even though the staff was the same the offense changed from ‘07-‘08/‘09. So yeah I liked what Hatcher did in ‘07 but not after that.

    Davis didn’t start calling plays until the App St game of 2010. He’s a good OC but that doesn’t mean he didn’t get ultra conservative (maybe at Monken’s demand?) in 2012 and was running a completely different offense for the most of 2013 that had us looking like a lost jumbled mess way too much.

    So yes it fluctuates as things change even within continuous staffs.
    I appreciate you responding.

    I’m not trying to trap you or anything sinister. As I’m sure you are aware, you’ve developed a reputation as being hypercritical of OC’s. I’m trying to draw out your thought process on that and understand whether you think a good coordinator can have a bad season (due to personnel, injuries, etc) or if you think a bad season means a good coordinator has fundamentally lost his mojo.

    How much do you think having an unlimited-play trump card in J Foster might shade your perspective of Hatcher’s performance in ‘07?
    Ever devoted to the twin causes of reason and justice . . . ever at risk of waxing verbose

  6. #126

    Default Re: Bob DeBesse opens up on ‘disjointed’ Georgia Southern offense

    Rank Season Yards Per Play Yards Per Game

  7. #127

    Default Re: Bob DeBesse opens up on ‘disjointed’ Georgia Southern offense

    Quote Originally Posted by kdarnell233 View Post
    I forgot about that. Other than the Florida game that was a really forgettable season. I remember him trying to use the gun a few times and it looked awful, which caused people to freak out once we hired Fritz, as they pointed to Davis' 2013 offense as proof that we would struggle under Fritz.
    We ran plenty of gun in 2011 with Jaybo, although it changed somewhat in 2013. Perhaps a switch from man to zone blocking? Yet, as per Klak's site 2013 ranks 6th all time for YPP.

  8. #128
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    Default Re: Bob DeBesse opens up on ‘disjointed’ Georgia Southern offense

    Quote Originally Posted by yourmother View Post
    Regarding that last piece about the dive and "feeling out process" because they don't know how the other team is going to play them....I feel like doing the same damn thing starting every game means the other team is going to play you the same damn way as everyone else because they see the reruns on tape.

    Then again I cancelled my ESPN+ subscription weeks ago because the team was so boring to watch and am mostly talking out of my *** about what they do. I don't really know but that feels right.
    Now dont blast the hell out of me unless you want to, which would be OK with me! ;-)

    I know that we had some A to A++ QBs & fullbacks playing in the Flex Option under different head coaches. Still the read was close or on top of the offensive line, for the Full Back hand off key or QB keep and read to pitch seemed a lot easier using the Flex Option. The decision to use the full back handoff or QB keep & then pitch, if needed, happened much more quickly because of the Flex's proximity to the line & it did a better job of hiding the FB handoff or QB keep or Pitch portion of the triple option. In the Shotgun option the opponents defense has a much longer time to read both the Triple Option, Double option or any give to a back in GSUs backfield.

    Some of you will argue - " LOOK WHAT FRITZ DID IN THE 2 YEARS AS HC AT GSU"- and I'd say he did more than a great job and we were lucky to have him for 2 years.

    Fritz was able to make the Shotgun option work where other HCs have not done as well.

    AS I have said before the true triple option is the most effective ground attack ever devised. The Flex Option is the best way to use the Triple Option ground attack in the modern era. Since the Flex was developed using a pass formation with 2 wide outs, 2 slots, and even a fullback for swing or brake free passes it is a great formation to pass from. You do have to have to have GOOD players and great coaches. If you had Great Coaches and Great players the sky is the limit!

    If you look at the 1985 GSC vs Furman NC game you watched a triple option team, with triple option line men, triple option wide outs, shots and full back completely dismantle Furman using a Run & Shoot type passing game & scoring some 35 points in 22 minutes using a passing attack.

    Someone asked - "if the Triple Option is so good under the Flex, Shotgun, or Pistol why dont Collage football foot ball teams use it?

    Good question & if you would like to know and not be ignorant, just ask TALON..... ;-)
    GSU Spread Option FOOTBALL - out weighed, but never outplayed

  9. #129

    Default Re: Bob DeBesse opens up on ‘disjointed’ Georgia Southern offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Army Eagle View Post
    We ran plenty of gun in 2011 with Jaybo, although it changed somewhat in 2013. Perhaps a switch from man to zone blocking? Yet, as per Klak's site 2013 ranks 6th all time for YPP.
    Lots of experimentation with zone read in 2013.

    The bigger change may have been from 2011 to 2012, though.

    2013 was a frustrating season, but that had a lot to do with our lack of consistency and the sense that we were screwing around.

    Of course, padding the stats against SSU and St. Francis helped the overall #s.
    Last edited by pete4256; 18th October 2019 at 03:24 PM.
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  10. #130

    Default Re: Bob DeBesse opens up on ‘disjointed’ Georgia Southern offense

    Quote Originally Posted by TALON View Post
    Now dont blast the hell out of me unless you want to, which would be OK with me! ;-)

    I know that we had some A to A++ QBs & fullbacks playing in the Flex Option under different head coaches. Still the read was close or on top of the offensive line, for the Full Back hand off key or QB keep and read to pitch seemed a lot easier using the Flex Option. The decision to use the full back handoff or QB keep & then pitch, if needed, happened much more quickly because of the Flex's proximity to the line & it did a better job of hiding the FB handoff or QB keep or Pitch portion of the triple option. In the Shotgun option the opponents defense has much longer to read both the Triple Option, Double option or any give to a back in GSUs backfield.
    You make a good point about the mesh in the flex vs gun. Optioned defenders have to commit to their assignments MUCH more quickly when facing the flex because they’re much closer to the play and will give up big yards inside if they don’t commit when that’s their assignment.

    We’ve seen optioned defenders able to read the mesh and follow the ball pretty effectively over the past four years, though. If we don’t block them, they can see the backfield and POTENTIALLY play either the QB or the RB. Sometimes we punish them for this, other times it works for them.

    The big difference is that it takes the flex QB and B-Back about 10,000 reps (Sewak actually put a number on it, but I can’t remember) to get the dive mesh “right.”

    However, most HS RBs and QBs we recruit come in having run a lot of zone read plays. In theory, we should be able to execute these plays without an obsessive commitment to them (which you need to run veer plays in the flex). I haven’t seen that theory borne out in practice, though.
    Last edited by pete4256; 18th October 2019 at 03:26 PM.
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

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