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Thread: Departing Benson throws down the gauntlet

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Departing Benson throws down the gauntlet

    Quote Originally Posted by TrueBlueDrew View Post
    Not sure I completely agree with that logic. The team can play their hearts out all they want to, but if the refs make a mistake whether on purpose or by accident, it has an outside influence on the game. It's a cop out to say "well the players should have played harder" when they are trying to overcome not only the other team but also the influence of the refs. Take yesterdays Saints/Rams game for example. It came down to a blatant mistake by the officials that cost the Saints the game. You can say woulda coulda shoulda all day long, but there's only so much the players themselves can do.
    You "blame" it on the call because it happened at the end of the game. But everyone ignores the previous three hours. If that exact same call happens in the 1st Qtr, no one says that it "cost them the game". If the Saints had scored enough points so one play doesn't derail their entire season, then they are Super Bow bound right now. Had it happened to us, I would be pissed too. But one play out of 100+ plays doesn't cost them the game unless they put themselves into a position for it to.

    I'll use an example that is near and dear to us.....Bass' bowl game kick. Had he missed, his kick would not have been the "reason" we lost. Our defense not making a play and letting them drive down the field and score with only a little bit of time left would have been the "reason".
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Departing Benson throws down the gauntlet

    Quote Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
    So, we don’t have a right to expect fair officiating?

    That stuff doesn’t make a difference?

    Eventually, we will win games by such margins that officiating won’t matter (like App and Bowling Green.).

    But we do have the right to expect and demand fair officiating. The system supports and promotes crooked refs. Those guys never get disciplined or fire-not even have they pull stuff like “inadvertent whistles” or reviews of nomn-reviewable calls.

    The NCAA has many problems. This is one very near the top of the list which needs to be taken seriously.

    People always say “nothing will change,” but stuff really needs to. If things keep going on this track of letting dirtbags get away with all kinds of stuff, the sport will no longer be taken seriously. People will stop coming. NASCAR provides an excellent example of where we are headed-you have to apply rules in a fair manner, or people will get pissed off and stop supporting the sport.
    Where did I say we should not expect better officiating?
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive

  3. Default Re: Departing Benson throws down the gauntlet

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ Eagle View Post
    You "blame" it on the call because it happened at the end of the game. But everyone ignores the previous three hours. If that exact same call happens in the 1st Qtr, no one says that it "cost them the game". If the Saints had scored enough points so one play doesn't derail their entire season, then they are Super Bow bound right now. Had it happened to us, I would be pissed too. But one play out of 100+ plays doesn't cost them the game unless they put themselves into a position for it to.

    I'll use an example that is near and dear to us.....Bass' bowl game kick. Had he missed, his kick would not have been the "reason" we lost. Our defense not making a play and letting them drive down the field and score with only a little bit of time left would have been the "reason".
    I still don't agree. It would be great if we had such a large lead on our opponents that we didn't have to worry about a play or an officials mistake causing a small momentum change, but that idea is very utopian. Anyone would love to go up against a team that you completely outmatch and breeze right through. That's not how college football works though especially at our level.

    Using your bowl game example, what if Werts had converted just one more 3rd down earlier in the game? What if Brinson was fast enough to stop their receiver from breaking loose at the beginning of the second half? What if a chasm opened up in the middle of the field and the dark lord Cthulhu arose to devour the souls of man? Point is, you can play the what if game all day long, but the game came down to a field goal that was the decider.

    Similarly, with the other games that were brought up in this thread, a single call by the officials can be pointed to that either directly influenced the result of the game (Saints/Rams) or caused a momentum shift large enough to influence the outcome of the game (Ga Tech and UGA).

    I'll give one more recent example of when Georgia State beat ULM because of a missed traveling call. In the last seconds of the game, the Georgia State player picked the ball up at half court and sprinted to the goal for an easy lay up that was not called traveling despite it being the most egregious traveling move I've seen. It was so bad that the refs were publicly reprimanded by the conference and sports media talked about it for a solid few days. You wouldn't say "well if ULM had just scored more points, then that blatant missed call by the refs wouldn't have mattered" because ULM would have won that game, but the ref's mistake (whether accidental or not) did in fact cost them the game.

    Sure it's easy to cop out and say "well, x team wouldn't have been in that scenario if they just scored more earlier in the game," but sports are rarely that black and white. The opposing team wants to win just as badly as yours does and their job is to stop you from scoring. That's why good games against evenly matched teams are usually close.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Departing Benson throws down the gauntlet

    Quote Originally Posted by TrueBlueDrew View Post
    I still don't agree. It would be great if we had such a large lead on our opponents that we didn't have to worry about a play or an officials mistake causing a small momentum change, but that idea is very utopian. Anyone would love to go up against a team that you completely outmatch and breeze right through. That's not how college football works though especially at our level.

    Using your bowl game example, what if Werts had converted just one more 3rd down earlier in the game? What if Brinson was fast enough to stop their receiver from breaking loose at the beginning of the second half? What if a chasm opened up in the middle of the field and the dark lord Cthulhu arose to devour the souls of man? Point is, you can play the what if game all day long, but the game came down to a field goal that was the decider.

    Similarly, with the other games that were brought up in this thread, a single call by the officials can be pointed to that either directly influenced the result of the game (Saints/Rams) or caused a momentum shift large enough to influence the outcome of the game (Ga Tech and UGA).

    Sure it's easy to cop out and say "well, x team wouldn't have been in that scenario if they just scored more earlier in the game," but sports are rarely that black and white. The opposing team wants to win just as badly as yours does and their job is to stop you from scoring. That's why good games against good teams are usually close.
    The great thing is that you don't have to agree with me and I don't have to agree with you, and the world continues to go on. It's called an opinion. If you polled 100 football coaches, once they got past the being pissed at a blown call part of it, most of them would say "we shouldn't have put ourselves in that position".

    Other than field opening up, every one of the things you noted that could have happened have just as much responsibility for winning or losing the game as one bad call. Again, the same non-penalty happens in the 1st Qtr, no one blames the loss on it. It "feels" worse because it happened at the end of the game.
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive

  5. Default Re: Departing Benson throws down the gauntlet

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ Eagle View Post
    Where did I say we should not expect better officiating?
    You implied that it doesn’t matter much.

    I contend that it matters a LOT. If colleges and the NCAA want to see basketball and football and other sports be successful, they absolutely have to deal with bad officiating. This stuff has gone way beyond a few ‘mistakes’. There are clearly officials trying to throw games-frequently.

    It has cost us games, and has cost many other G5’s games.

    The reason I bring NASCAR up is that the NCAA seems to be on a very similar trajectory. For those who are unfamiliar, it was a fun time before Brian France took over. He calls all the shots and enforces all penalties-personally. What the ‘officials’ do comes directly from him-every race, every single decision. The result is a driver he likes can do something awful and get off scot-free. The next race, or a couple later, another driver does exactly the same thing, and they get suspended and fined thousands of dollars and points. You may have noticed that NASCAR attendance and viewership has fallen straight off a cliff.

    I didn’t watch a single race last season. It’s just crap these days. Most others I know who used to be into it are no longer interested, and officiating is a major reason. People just won’t tolerate putting a lot of energy into something and seeing it trashed by dirty officials. There is a limit.

    People expect and deserve good officiating. It’s a major part of the foundation of any sport. NCAA better figure some stuff out, before they Brian France stuff up.

    They need a formal and transparent system with officials who make bad calls. If someone is dirty, they need to get fired. Publicly.

    We all have jobs which entail formal ethics standards. Whether it’s a company handbook, or a professional licensing board, we can all be held accountable if we are screwing up. Not NCAA officials. They can apparently do whatever they want and never get in trouble.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Departing Benson throws down the gauntlet

    Quote Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
    You implied that it doesn’t matter much.

    I contend that it matters a LOT. If colleges and the NCAA want to see basketball and football and other sports be successful, they absolutely have to deal with bad officiating. This stuff has gone way beyond a few ‘mistakes’. There are clearly officials trying to throw games-frequently.

    It has cost us games, and has cost many other G5’s games.

    The reason I bring NASCAR up is that the NCAA seems to be on a very similar trajectory. For those who are unfamiliar, it was a fun time before Brian France took over. He calls all the shots and enforces all penalties-personally. What the ‘officials’ do comes directly from him-every race, every single decision. The result is a driver he likes can do something awful and get off scot-free. The next race, or a couple later, another driver does exactly the same thing, and they get suspended and fined thousands of dollars and points. You may have noticed that NASCAR attendance and viewership has fallen straight off a cliff.

    I didn’t watch a single race last season. It’s just crap these days. Most others I know who used to be into it are no longer interested, and officiating is a major reason. People just won’t tolerate putting a lot of energy into something and seeing it trashed by dirty officials. There is a limit.

    People expect and deserve good officiating. It’s a major part of the foundation of any sport. NCAA better figure some stuff out, before they Brian France stuff up.

    They need a formal and transparent system with officials who make bad calls. If someone is dirty, they need to get fired. Publicly.

    We all have jobs which entail formal ethics standards. Whether it’s a company handbook, or a professional licensing board, we can all be held accountable if we are screwing up. Not NCAA officials. They can apparently do whatever they want and never get in trouble.
    I didn't imply anything of the sort. I said that one good or bad call isn't the sole "reason" that you lose or win a game.

    But to think there is some mass conspiracy, or that leagues are mandating that officials call for or against a certain team is asinine. Just like in every other profession, there is the best official and the worst official. Sometimes you get a good one and sometimes you don't.
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive

  7. Default Re: Departing Benson throws down the gauntlet

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ Eagle View Post
    I didn't imply anything of the sort. I said that one good or bad call isn't the sole "reason" that you lose or win a game.

    But to think there is some mass conspiracy, or that leagues are mandating that officials call for or against a certain team is asinine. Just like in every other profession, there is the best official and the worst official. Sometimes you get a good one and sometimes you don't.
    It can be the sole reason.

    Look at the saints game last night.

    Try telling anyone that missed call didn't cost them a SB trip.

    I don't think it's a conspiracy per se. I do think certain refs tell their friends which way a game is gonna go-and they pull what they can to make certain it goes that way. I definitely think some of them are (probably indirectly) involved in betting. If some friend gets a tip, places a big bet and wins, no one is going to look closely enough to find that. Some grateful friend just happens to give ref a new bass boat for Christmas, hey.... Bass boats show up in driveways all the time.

    I absolutely believe that stuff goes on.

    There are people who are total Pieces Of Poo in every walk of life. Those people are definitely amongst the refs. The NCAA just doesn't lift a finger to find them.

    That's a big problem, and it seems to get bigger each season.

    (Technically, I guess you are right. Not sure that one blown call has cost us a big game. That UGA game hinged on 2. But really what's the difference? Whether it's 2 calls or 22-as in that GAG game? Dirty officiating is dirty officiating.)

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Departing Benson throws down the gauntlet

    Quote Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
    It can be the sole reason.

    Look at the saints game last night.

    Try telling anyone that missed call didn't cost them a SB trip.

    I don't think it's a conspiracy per se. I do think certain refs tell their friends which way a game is gonna go-and they pull what they can to make certain it goes that way. I definitely think some of them are (probably indirectly) involved in betting. If some friend gets a tip, places a big bet and wins, no one is going to look closely enough to find that. Some grateful friend just happens to give ref a new bass boat for Christmas, hey.... Bass boats show up in driveways all the time.

    I absolutely believe that stuff goes on.

    There are people who are total Pieces Of Poo in every walk of life. Those people are definitely amongst the refs. The NCAA just doesn't lift a finger to find them.

    That's a big problem, and it seems to get bigger each season.

    (Technically, I guess you are right. Not sure that one blown call has cost us a big game. That UGA game hinged on 2. But really what's the difference? Whether it's 2 calls or 22-as in that GAG game? Dirty officiating is dirty officiating.)
    You are 100% wrong in your opinion. Game fixing is a federal offense. There are checks and balances in place to assure it does not happen. Facts. Federal offense, not NCAA, not NFL, the feds. You know, the ones with a 95% conviction rate. You need to learn what RICO is before you spew your false accusations. I'd willing to bet more players have been busted for gambling than refs. Put your money where you mouth is. $100 donation to the Atheltic Foundation.

    1 ref in all the 4 major sports: Tim Donaghy.
    1 FIFA ref.
    Shoeless Joe Jackson
    Pete Rose
    CCNY basketball
    Boston College basketball
    Arizona State basketball
    Northwestern basketball
    Toledo football
    FIFA used to in the World Cup but they since have changed the rules so all the final matches start at the exact same time to move on the next round.

    Prove me wrong. I dare you.
    No longer eating crow for saying "The TO is gone get over it!!"

  9. Default Re: Departing Benson throws down the gauntlet

    Let me tell you a quick story.

    I know a guy who was pals with a former GA governor’s son. He told me about the best bribery scheme I’ve ever heard..... (this is the way it really happens sometimes, and technically it’s probably not illegal.)

    This Gov would regularly have gentleman callers show up in his office and say something to the effect of “I sure would be grateful to get that contract on the new bridge down in xxxx county. I’d love to give you some consideration to make sure I get that contract.”

    Gov then would say :“Hold on just a sec, bubba..... That sounds an awful lot like a bribe. And I don’t do bribes.”

    “But I do sell bird dogs.”

    “Tell you what..... There’s a whole pen full of nice, smart birds dogs out behind the governor’s mansion. You should come by one night, real late and meet you a few dogs. If you fall in love with one, you just take that dog home and you got yourself a helluva good hunting dog...... Just leave whatever you think your dog’s worth on the back steps.”

    So..... Every morning, the governor would awaken bright and early and go out back to see he had a nice newspaper-and usually a bag of money sitting on the back step..... Bird dog proceeds.

    Bribery was a federal offense back then too. But that wasn’t a bribe-now was it? Some bird dogs just getting bought. And who’s to say what a reasonable price would be for a really smart bird dog?

    I’m not saying that bribes are not illegal. I am saying that I think crooked stuff is definitely happening, and they just aren’t even trying to catch those guys. (And the smart ones have figured out a way to benefit which isn’t illegal-like bird dogs.)

    Everyone sees dirty calls. Everyone knows why they are happening (Or can easily extrapolate why.). Yet the NCAA has it’s head still firmly buried in the sand-pretending it’s not a problem.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Departing Benson throws down the gauntlet

    Quote Originally Posted by 1peatfor7 View Post
    You are 100% wrong in your opinion. Game fixing is a federal offense. There are checks and balances in place to assure it does not happen. Facts. Federal offense, not NCAA, not NFL, the feds. You know, the ones with a 95% conviction rate. You need to learn what RICO is before you spew your false accusations. I'd willing to bet more players have been busted for gambling than refs. Put your money where you mouth is. $100 donation to the Atheltic Foundation.

    1 ref in all the 4 major sports: Tim Donaghy.
    1 FIFA ref.
    Shoeless Joe Jackson
    Pete Rose
    CCNY basketball
    Boston College basketball
    Arizona State basketball
    Northwestern basketball
    Toledo football
    FIFA used to in the World Cup but they since have changed the rules so all the final matches start at the exact same time to move on the next round.

    Prove me wrong. I dare you.
    And you are 100% wrong if you think the feds or anyone else can enforce every law 100% of the time. I'm not saying that game fixing happens, but don't try to act like just because something is against the law that someone will be charged with a crime.

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